I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. Here’s why I left | Megan Phelps-Roper

I was a blue-eyed,
chubby-cheeked five-year-old when I joined my family
on the picket line for the first time. My mom made me leave
my dolls in the minivan. I’d stand on a street corner
in the heavy Kansas humidity, surrounded by a few dozen relatives, with my tiny fists clutching
a sign that I couldn’t read yet: “Gays are worthy of death.” This was the beginning. Our protests soon became
a daily occurrence and an international phenomenon, and as a member
of Westboro Baptist Church, I became a fixture
on picket lines across the country. The end of my antigay picketing career and life as I knew it, came 20 years later, triggered in part by strangers on Twitter who showed me the power
of engaging the other. In my home, life was framed as an epic
spiritual battle between good and evil. The good was my church and its members, and the evil was everyone else. My church’s antics were such that we were constantly
at odds with the world, and that reinforced
our otherness on a daily basis. “Make a difference
between the unclean and the clean,” the verse says, and so we did. From baseball games to military funerals, we trekked across the country
with neon protest signs in hand to tell others exactly
how “unclean” they were and exactly why
they were headed for damnation. This was the focus of our whole lives. This was the only way for me to do good
in a world that sits in Satan’s lap. And like the rest of my 10 siblings, I believed what I was taught
with all my heart, and I pursued Westboro’s agenda
with a special sort of zeal. In 2009, that zeal brought me to Twitter. Initially, the people
I encountered on the platform were just as hostile as I expected. They were the digital version
of the screaming hordes I’d been seeing at protests
since I was a kid. But in the midst of that digital brawl, a strange pattern developed. Someone would arrive at my profile
with the usual rage and scorn, I would respond with a custom mix
of Bible verses, pop culture references and smiley faces. They would be understandably
confused and caught off guard, but then a conversation would ensue. And it was civil — full of genuine curiosity on both sides. How had the other come to such
outrageous conclusions about the world? Sometimes the conversation
even bled into real life. People I’d sparred with on Twitter would come out
to the picket line to see me when I protested in their city. A man named David was one such person. He ran a blog called “Jewlicious,” and after several months
of heated but friendly arguments online, he came out to see me
at a picket in New Orleans. He brought me a Middle Eastern dessert
from Jerusalem, where he lives, and I brought him kosher chocolate and held a “God hates Jews” sign. (Laughter) There was no confusion
about our positions, but the line between friend and foe
was becoming blurred. We’d started to see each other
as human beings, and it changed the way
we spoke to one another. It took time, but eventually these conversations
planted seeds of doubt in me. My friends on Twitter took the time
to understand Westboro’s doctrines, and in doing so, they were able to find inconsistencies
I’d missed my entire life. Why did we advocate
the death penalty for gays when Jesus said, “Let he who is
without sin cast the first stone?” How could we claim to love our neighbor while at the same time
praying for God to destroy them? The truth is that the care shown to me
by these strangers on the internet was itself a contradiction. It was growing evidence that people on the other side were not
the demons I’d been led to believe. These realizations were life-altering. Once I saw that we were not
the ultimate arbiters of divine truth but flawed human beings, I couldn’t pretend otherwise. I couldn’t justify our actions — especially our cruel practice
of protesting funerals and celebrating human tragedy. These shifts in my perspective contributed to a larger erosion
of trust in my church, and eventually it made it
impossible for me to stay. In spite of overwhelming grief and terror,
I left Westboro in 2012. In those days just after I left, the instinct to hide
was almost paralyzing. I wanted to hide
from the judgement of my family, who I knew would never
speak to me again — people whose thoughts and opinions
had meant everything to me. And I wanted to hide from the world
I’d rejected for so long — people who had no reason at all
to give me a second chance after a lifetime of antagonism. And yet, unbelievably, they did. The world had access to my past
because it was all over the internet — thousands of tweets
and hundreds of interviews, everything from local TV news
to “The Howard Stern Show” — but so many embraced me
with open arms anyway. I wrote an apology
for the harm I’d caused, but I also knew that an apology
could never undo any of it. All I could do was try to build a new life and find a way somehow
to repair some of the damage. People had every reason
to doubt my sincerity, but most of them didn’t. And — given my history, it was more than I could’ve hoped for — forgiveness and the benefit of the doubt. It still amazes me. I spent my first year away from home adrift with my younger sister, who had chosen to leave with me. We walked into an abyss, but we were shocked to find
the light and a way forward in the same communities
we’d targeted for so long. David, my “Jewlicious” friend from Twitter, invited us to spend time among
a Jewish community in Los Angeles. We slept on couches in the home
of a Hasidic rabbi and his wife and their four kids — the same rabbi that I’d protested
three years earlier with a sign that said,
“Your rabbi is a whore.” We spent long hours talking
about theology and Judaism and life while we washed dishes
in their kosher kitchen and chopped vegetables for dinner. They treated us like family. They held nothing against us, and again I was astonished. That period was full of turmoil, but one part I’ve returned to often is a surprising realization
I had during that time — that it was a relief and a privilege
to let go of the harsh judgments that instinctively ran through my mind
about nearly every person I saw. I realized that now I needed to learn. I needed to listen. This has been at the front
of my mind lately, because I can’t help but see
in our public discourse so many of the same destructive impulses
that ruled my former church. We celebrate tolerance and diversity
more than at any other time in memory, and still we grow more and more divided. We want good things — justice, equality,
freedom, dignity, prosperity — but the path we’ve chosen looks so much like the one
I walked away from four years ago. We’ve broken the world into us and them, only emerging from our bunkers long enough to lob rhetorical grenades
at the other camp. We write off half the country
as out-of-touch liberal elites or racist misogynist bullies. No nuance, no complexity, no humanity. Even when someone does call for empathy
and understanding for the other side, the conversation nearly always devolves into a debate about
who deserves more empathy. And just as I learned to do, we routinely refuse to acknowledge
the flaws in our positions or the merits in our opponent’s. Compromise is anathema. We even target people on our own side
when they dare to question the party line. This path has brought us cruel,
sniping, deepening polarization, and even outbreaks of violence. I remember this path. It will not take us where we want to go. What gives me hope is that
we can do something about this. The good news is that it’s simple, and the bad news is that it’s hard. We have to talk and listen
to people we disagree with. It’s hard because we often can’t fathom how the other side
came to their positions. It’s hard because righteous indignation, that sense of certainty
that ours is the right side, is so seductive. It’s hard because it means
extending empathy and compassion to people who show us
hostility and contempt. The impulse to respond in kind
is so tempting, but that isn’t who we want to be. We can resist. And I will always be inspired to do so
by those people I encountered on Twitter, apparent enemies
who became my beloved friends. And in the case of one particularly
understanding and generous guy, my husband. There was nothing special
about the way I responded to him. What was special was their approach. I thought about it a lot
over the past few years and I found four things
they did differently that made real conversation possible. These four steps were small but powerful, and I do everything I can to employ them
in difficult conversations today. The first is don’t assume bad intent. My friends on Twitter realized that even when my words
were aggressive and offensive, I sincerely believed
I was doing the right thing. Assuming ill motives
almost instantly cuts us off from truly understanding
why someone does and believes as they do. We forget that they’re a human being with a lifetime of experience
that shaped their mind, and we get stuck
on that first wave of anger, and the conversation has a very hard time
ever moving beyond it. But when we assume good or neutral intent, we give our minds a much stronger
framework for dialogue. The second is ask questions. When we engage people
across ideological divides, asking questions
helps us map the disconnect between our differing points of view. That’s important because
we can’t present effective arguments if we don’t understand where
the other side is actually coming from and because it gives them an opportunity
to point out flaws in our positions. But asking questions
serves another purpose; it signals to someone
that they’re being heard. When my friends on Twitter
stopped accusing and started asking questions, I almost automatically mirrored them. Their questions gave me room to speak, but they also gave me permission
to ask them questions and to truly hear their responses. It fundamentally changed
the dynamic of our conversation. The third is stay calm. This takes practice and patience, but it’s powerful. At Westboro, I learned not to care
how my manner of speaking affected others. I thought my rightness
justified my rudeness — harsh tones, raised voices,
insults, interruptions — but that strategy
is ultimately counterproductive. Dialing up the volume and the snark
is natural in stressful situations, but it tends to bring the conversation
to an unsatisfactory, explosive end. When my husband was still
just an anonymous Twitter acquaintance, our discussions frequently
became hard and pointed, but we always refused to escalate. Instead, he would change the subject. He would tell a joke or recommend a book or gently excuse himself
from the conversation. We knew the discussion wasn’t over, just paused for a time
to bring us back to an even keel. People often lament that digital
communication makes us less civil, but this is one advantage that online
conversations have over in-person ones. We have a buffer of time and space between us and the people
whose ideas we find so frustrating. We can use that buffer. Instead of lashing out,
we can pause, breathe, change the subject or walk away, and then come back to it when we’re ready. And finally … make the argument. This might seem obvious, but one side effect
of having strong beliefs is that we sometimes assume that the value of our position
is or should be obvious and self-evident, that we shouldn’t
have to defend our positions because they’re so clearly right and good that if someone doesn’t get it,
it’s their problem — that it’s not my job to educate them. But if it were that simple, we would all see things the same way. As kind as my friends on Twitter were, if they hadn’t actually
made their arguments, it would’ve been so much harder for me
to see the world in a different way. We are all a product of our upbringing, and our beliefs reflect our experiences. We can’t expect others
to spontaneously change their own minds. If we want change, we have to make the case for it. My friends on Twitter didn’t abandon
their beliefs or their principles — only their scorn. They channeled their
infinitely justifiable offense and came to me with pointed questions
tempered with kindness and humor. They approached me as a human being, and that was more transformative than two full decades
of outrage, disdain and violence. I know that some might not have
the time or the energy or the patience for extensive engagement, but as difficult as it can be, reaching out to someone we disagree with is an option that is
available to all of us. And I sincerely believe
that we can do hard things, not just for them
but for us and our future. Escalating disgust
and intractable conflict are not what we want for ourselves, or our country or our next generation. My mom said something to me
a few weeks before I left Westboro, when I was desperately hoping there was a way
I could stay with my family. People I have loved
with every pulse of my heart since even before I was
that chubby-cheeked five-year-old, standing on a picket line
holding a sign I couldn’t read. She said, “You’re just a human being, my dear, sweet child.” She was asking me to be humble — not to question
but to trust God and my elders. But to me, she was missing
the bigger picture — that we’re all just human beings. That we should be guided
by that most basic fact, and approach one another
with generosity and compassion. Each one of us
contributes to the communities and the cultures and the societies
that we make up. The end of this spiral of rage and blame
begins with one person who refuses to indulge
these destructive, seductive impulses. We just have to decide
that it’s going to start with us. Thank you. (Applause)

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. You are slow if you needed people on Twitter/social media to point out your beliefs were flawed based on your own beliefs

  2. 1:14
    Way in the back you can read out a sign that says โ€œJews Killed Jesusโ€ I think, wasnโ€™t Jesus a Jew tho?

  3. I'm so glad she escaped from this cult of hate. Her mother is a genuine wacko nut-case who forbade her daughters from having any "foreign" boyfriends. I knew they had a future of misery in store for them…

  4. "Reason is the Devil's harlot, who can do nought but slander and harm whatever God says and does". – Martin Luther.
    This is why religious leaders have always forbidden their followers from engaging with anyone outside their cult. The ultimate test of faith is refusing to listen to someone who is trying to reason with you, and refusing to acknowledge events that are actually happening if it makes your religion look bad.

    Her words at the end are inspiring; but if she had said the same things about listening to your opponents and engaging with them, in many fundamentalist countries, she would be imprisoned and then executed as a heretic and an unbeliever.
    Somehow, though indoctrinated as a small child, she managed to keep her reason and her spirit.

  5. Christians entire purpose here is supposed to be to be a witness of a Christ. To give testimonies of Gods work in their lives to BRING people to God. Iโ€™m just really not sure where or how that church completely missed the ENTIRE PURPOSE of their whole religion…..

  6. Some folks do not know how to represent Jesus. I can not believe Megan Phelps-Roper left her faith in Jesus. Yes leave the fellowship of evil folks but do not leave Jesus. Come on Megan Phelps-Roper come back to Jesus. I pray you will truly know Him and love Him, the way He loves you.

  7. Incredible effort of Megan to open herself up to a different believe system she was so deeply connected to. And then coming to the conclusion that she had to leave everything and everyone she knew and had grown up with. Big respect to Megan! I hope other family members have that open mindness within themselves and will be joining you in that paradigm shift. Whatever you believe in, hate is never the answer.

  8. This young woman has always been beautiful on the outside, yet rotten and blackened to the core by her arrogant right-wing terrorist family and church. I'm glad she rescued herself from a life dedicated to hate and persecution of "the others".

  9. The sad thing is how easily the human brain can be manipulated. For anyone to live there life from a book is worryingly sad…..๐Ÿ˜

  10. The damage that this church has caused is incalculable – but the lessons we can learn (like listening without judgement and not responding to anger) might be life-saving

  11. it's hard to believe that she used to be an angry person who yells and lash out, she looks so chill and has a soothing voice! i love her.

  12. In the bible God says not to hate, but to love your brothers and sisters but the westboro church apparently doesnt believe in that.

    I got a question…


  13. Just want to say, that even if there are churches like these, there are also people with believe in a god who loves his whole creation. Please don't associate a bad behavior from a few Christians with all believers.

  14. Sadly in some cases a child is a product if its upbringing any religion shows us this i suggest if religion was kept from children until say 20 i believe it would soon be wiped out by rapidly decreasing numbers over just a few generations

  15. Here's the paradox. They scream and bawl about how much they hate Jews (as well as gays). Now,at the same time,they shout from the rooftops about how much they love Jesus. Remind me again what faith he practiced? ๐Ÿค”

  16. This only goes to show, no matter how indoctrinated someone is, with whatever idea, religion, prejudice… If you allow yourself to open your eyes unbiased, no matter what was planted into your brain, you can snap out of it! I applaude this woman for doing exactly that. There is hope, I know there is…

  17. I know this was in 2017 but in 2019 her words go far beyond the evils of westboro. More and more young people are denouncing the words of those that disagree with them. There "feelings" are the only truth they want to hear. If you don't agree with them, then you are evil and should be put down. This woman should take this lecture into the halls of many of the universities in this country.

  18. Megan is wonderful. This looks like a journey towards Humanist/Humanitarianism and PersonCentred/Positive psychology. Fabulous. I'm not sure I totally understand faith, but I do believe in the importance of relationships, being relational with all our relationships and acquaintances. Thumbs up for person-centred psychology. Would love to meet her and buy her upcoming book. Go go, Megan. I'm right behind you or at your side on this journey.

  19. I can relate to this in part. I come from Jehovahs Witnesses, who are not political activists like the Westboro Baptist Church but their message is not very different.

  20. these people came to my town and picketed in front of the mayors house because he was gay.the towns people let them picket and payed them no attention they soon left

  21. It's so tragic that your belief that others who doesn't know Christ are villains, led you to a decision to leave your church, in the first place that was never written in the bible. all of us are like beggars the only difference is that some people knows where to get free bread.

  22. Seriously. This family has high level ties. And the irony is the media knows more about their activities than anyone else. Too perfect of a scenario

  23. You're message of enlightenment is beautiful. Thank you. I am 56 years old, a mother of two beautiful children (adopted from China (2001) and Guatemala (2005)) as well as my wonderful wife from Japan. You made my day๐Ÿ˜Š

  24. It is possible the mother of Megan [ not Megan that i know of yet ] was not an actual Christian as in not truly saved , but had extreme mere head knowledge it is called would be herself and her heart was not as it should be so she may of not been saved at all .People with only head knowledge are usually legalistic and so strict to a big way and may have a fleshly type anger .This is my observations of the mother of her seeing her interviewed on a Tyra Banks podcast thing. People that get saved develop HEART knowledge as they grow stronger in God and the bible as well. Holy Spirit helps them get the eyes wide open to scripture to see the spirit of the letter and not the law with regulations to follow so much .See 2 Corinthians chapter 3 in the New Testament .

  25. I'm glad to hear she overcame what basically is tantamount to a Christian cult. She's very well-spoken, too. It really sounds like she's scripted, but I see none of the eye movement indicative of a teleprompter.

  26. "Gays are worthy of death" I don't know why that is controversial? Every sin is worthy of death. The only quibble is that the members of WBC have all also committed sins worthy of death. Only the blood of Jesus can make one worthy of life. If standing behind such a sign implies that one is more righteous than the person reading it, then that is wrong.

  27. Wow! She speaks so eloquently and with passion. She is such a strong young woman and I wish her much love in her new life. Blessings. โค๏ธ

  28. But you are now the third bullshittery.

    NOW get more pregnant.

    Did I touch on your personal reality?

    And the bullshit continues.

    You got played; he was seeking.


  29. ALL Arabs are S E M I T E S: Not only Jews! WHY are those many Billions of Aryan/
    Caucassian believers, all those Christians and Muslims (Turks, Persians, Pakistanis,
    Indonesians, etc.,etc.) so desperately eager to share and believe those Arab faiths,ย 
    without having no S e m i t e genes themselves at all?

  30. Before the invention of Judaism (`father`) Christianity (`son`) and Islam (`grandson`)
    the whole world new about RE-incarnation: And also, that in the long run of very many
    human lives, eventually a male has to incarnate as a woman and a female as a male:
    This transition of body, mind and emotions does not happen in one single life only,
    but over various life-times! It is but NORMAL that a person does have a male body
    but still female emotions, or that a physical woman still has a male spirit and mind, etc.
    The reason of this gender-transitions is, that all lives are `schools` of SELF-experiences,
    this ONLY possible way to truly (!) become understanding, tolerant and loving in time …

  31. Unfortunately there are many opinions that are truly unjust to others hopefully as we grow we may see all the inconsistencies of all people. Bold statement and before anyone chooses there "side" think about the fact that every race, group, ethnicity, etc. are all at fault for the very thing they usually hate…get it hate is hate it is your own feeling not someone else's when you hate it is you who is hating but even more everybody in the USA has their right to even hate if they wish but we don't have to dwell on it violent actions are what we must act upon and trust in our system

  32. As inspiring as this is It is also a very dangerous Proposition. She was able to get out of her Bad Situation cause she was lucky enough that curcumstainces occured that she could change her mind and leave. That mindboggeling Situation of brainwashed Human beeings is sadly a very common accurance. There entire States like North Korea who operate te same way, distorting reality to comfort their beliefs or more often to control a society.

    Religion is one of the Tools used for the practice of bypassing commen scence and getting believers onboard with believing a leader or deity that can't be challenged argued or even be physically touched.

    So her First notion off not assuming Bad intent from another Person in a Konversation is a very very dangerous one, it would claim it is a naive assumtion and someone not as eloquent as her will fall pray for that notion. Never forget we are a Predatory Species, to harm another Person is something that is very easy for us because it is our Nature, to be civilized is hard it takes a far bigger effort to accomplish that for a larger Society to implement.

    I am glad that she got out, but I don't expect this to changes anything.

  33. I hope you all are actually listening to what she is saying instead of focusing on the fact that she found the courage to leave the most hated family in America that she was forced to believe in. USE YOUR HEADS.

  34. Imaginรฉ being part of a church where you never knew what grace was, and how amazing it could be. Westboro is missing the entire point of historic Christian thought. Sadly more Christians are embracing this kind of thing today because; for them, faith has become more about condemning others (and โ€œwinningโ€) than bettering themselves.

  35. Very well done. I have decided just now that I want to be a person that listens and considers people of different pivotal positions to mine. My wife (the sweetest, kindest smartest and most stubborn person I know) is my test and for so many reasons I owe her my full attention and calm respect on the issues we differ on. Your instruction makes for a great playbook. Again, well done.

  36. She is intelligent and thinks before she speaks. She could literally do anything. Society needs minds and voices like this. Resist the fifth column!

  37. It quite obvious youtube is run by a corrupt criminal cabal. How could the pastor of this church talking about the gifford's shooting have only 35k views in 8 years, when this satanic shill has 4.8m talking about just leaving the very same church in only 2 years.. Clearly youtube and satan love jews..

  38. Wow respect woman, such a beautiful angel inside and outside, you came a long way! "The meek shall inherit the earth".

  39. Omg i remember watching her on tyra and i am so glad she realized the "church" she was in was in fact a cult because religion….no matter what religion…DOES NOT promote hate. Im so happy for herโค

  40. I applaud you for sharing your enlightenment from the diluted religious markley. Whats really sickening is people trying to make a fairy tale real,then the insane behaviors. These creeps need to be arrested.

  41. You are amazing, listening to you speak, has given me the resolve to continue trying to reach out to some very troubled, extended family members. Thank you. May you and your husband have a beautiful long life together, you deserve it. ๐Ÿ’–

  42. Beautiful talk, both in sound and content. What a great voice and manner. I think most of us know these truths, but we need to keep hearing them over and over, because our human nature keeps creeping back in. I should probably listen to this on repeat.๐Ÿ˜€ I'm an agnostic and not a Bible fan, but it has a few good lines in there, including the one about being good to your enemy, and thereby "heaping coals of fire on his head." Like she said, kindness is far more powerful for change than righteous rage.

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